Wisdom from Within
Welcome to The Wisdom from Within podcast, I am Jen Aks and this is where we access mindset and bodyset - connecting both so that we can create the genuine, authentic, impact in our own lives and the lives we serve.
We get there by having conversations with industry leaders, scientists, executives, parents, your neighbors. These are conversations that reveal the intelligence your body already holds—and my mission is to help you awaken, trust so you can let it lead you into your greatest success.
Wisdom from Within
Start Showing Up as Yourself | Ep 24
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Welcome to Wisdom From Within.
Somewhere along the way, many of us learned to trust everyone else’s answers more than our own.
This podcast is a reminder that you were born with extraordinary intelligence—far beyond IQ alone. Your body knows. Your emotions speak. Your intuition guides and your nervous system remembers.
Every week, we’ll explore the science, stories, and practices that reconnect you to yourself so you can lead, love, create, and live with greater clarity, courage, and trust.
Because the answers you’ve been searching for aren’t out there.
They’re already within you.
What happens when the identity that once defined you disappears?
In this episode, Hannah Sumbera and Jen Aks explore identity, authenticity, meditation, discomfort, self-expression, and the courage to be seen trying. Hannah also shares how that journey eventually led to Wall Street Wardrobe and Wall Street Women, a community helping women find confidence and connection both personally and professionally.
💜
Quote:
“If you’re trying to be like everybody else, you’re not your most authentic self.”
Chapters
06:00 – Meditation & Coming Back to Yourself
12:00 – Building an Identity as a D1 Athlete
16:00 – When Confidence Turned Into Anxiety
22:00 – Losing Her Identity After Swimming
24:00 – Dressing Like Herself Changed Everything
28:30 – Rebuilding Confidence Through Authenticity
34:00 – Finding Purpose Beyond Your Old Identity
37:00 – Being Seen Trying & Leaning Into Discomfort
42:00 – Creating Wall Street Women
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My Book: Your Body is Speaking
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🎵 Music by Max Lilivois @prd.maxxell
✨ If this episode made you see your body and your brain in a new way, share it with someone who needs the science behind the wisdom. Sometimes that’s the permission people are waiting for.
Welcome to the Wisdom from Within podcast, where human stories inspire authentic connection and impactful leadership. My name is Jen Axe, and I am so psyched you're here. Let's get started. I know that I say this all the time, but the guests on this show are just phenomenal. Hannah Sumbera, you've got to listen to her. She's such an inspiration. Oh my gosh, we're talking D1 swimmer athlete. Went to one of the top schools in our country. Absolutely brilliant, not only on paper, not only on her SAT scores and standardized tests and all the rest, but inside. She lands on Wall Street. She's very successful and she finds her identity in what she's wearing. It impacts the power of her voice and how she shows up. And now she's got a full-fledged business, Wall Street Women, helping women find their power in this industry and outside, both personally and professionally. She's such an inspiration. She gets raw, she gets real, she shares her deepest stories, and she's just such an awesome human. I'm so excited for you to get to know her. Enjoy and please listen to the end. Share this episode. You're definitely gonna want to share a comment. I want to hear everything that you feel after you listen to this. Place one hand on your heart and one hand on your belly and just closing your eyes for a moment. Just allowing your breath to settle. Arriving here. Present, connected to you and your purpose, and your passion, and your inspiration, and your service. And just allowing the conversation today to move through you, knowing that someone on the other side is relating and connecting and finding wisdom in your words and your story. It matters. And I'm grateful. So I thank you for being here. Beautiful. When you're ready, you can open your eyes.
SPEAKER_02Always just brings it back in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, why do you think it brings it back in? We just for the listeners that are arriving here, we did a body set hand on our body and closing our eyes before we started the conversation. And I'm curious, I love that that you said, you know, it's valuable, right? And it matters. So I'm curious why you had the reaction you did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Of course. Um, and going back to our session on Friday, I think that a lot of us struggle with, again, having a million thoughts all at once, and it feels like you can be spread very, very thin. And in a way, you're not fully present in your body. And that's something that I struggle with. And sometimes it's like it's not pleasant because you're thinking about this and over, you know, overthinking that and worrying about this and all of that. But in reality, the present moment is here and it's okay. And I think that bringing yourself back to where you are right now in this second, and just kind of like remembering like it's gonna be okay. Like I'm here right now, and there's nothing I can do about some of these other things. Yeah, um, it's a really good reminder. And I think that you know, closing your eyes and just kind of feeling that center and bringing that energy back to your center, it's a very comforting thing, and it's a way to reel in your peace.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh my God. Do you find do you have a practice to do that in the work that you do and the busy life that you have, which we're definitely getting into? And by the way, this woman is phenomenal. I can't wait for you to hear her life, her journey. Wow, division one athlete, Wall Street, badass, and now doing what you're doing. Like the journey, the bridge you walked, empowering so many women to be themselves, to stand in their power, to wear what they want to wear, to act the way they feel, to believe in themselves, to trust their gut. Wow, all the things. And before we get into that, I want to know going back to this present moment of now, here and now, I love that word now because that's all we have. That's all we have is right now. We don't even know what's gonna happen tomorrow. So, with someone like you who's holding so much and doing so much, how do you practice that now presence?
SPEAKER_03I'm not gonna lie, it was very, very hard, especially given the nature of social media. There is no off button. So it's so easy to pick up your phone and scroll and look and this and that and post, and you never really feel like it's ever off. And I think the hard part too is a lot of people have social media for pleasure. And so mine is mixed with business, so it's never fully there for enjoyment per se, even though I do love what I do. But there's always an aspect of um, you know, being productive and like posting certain things and looking at metrics and all of these. And so I had a really hard time turning it off. I used to be a very big reader, I used to be a swimmer, and of course, in swimming, it's just you in the water. And so my whole life, I had this sense of grounding, and it was just always me alone in my thoughts, and that was always my my own time. And given living in New York, I love the energy, I love everything about the city. But you step out the door, you're surrounded by hundreds of people, hundreds of sounds, hundreds of notifications online, all of this. And I realized I was overstimulated. And so something actually within the past few months post my breakup that I really got myself back into was meditation. And it was really difficult at first because the thought of me laying still for 20 or 30 or 40 minutes without my phone, like with my thoughts in the middle of the day or in the morning, like it made me itch a little bit. I was like always kind of looking for reasons to avoid it because I'm like, you know, we're used to this instant dopamine, instant, instant, instant. And I had gotten away from these things that had grounded me so much in the past. And so I remember I started doing it and I've I would feel so good afterwards. And I'm like, huh, okay, this is, I feel really good. Like this was like a little reset, like it's complete energetic reset. It brings you back into your body, it quiets your mind. It was like this thing that I was missing that I didn't know. And so every time I made myself do it, it got easier and easier and easier to the point where I literally crave it every single day. Wow. And I can tell when I'm uncentered, when I'm anxious, when I'm panicking, when I'm too busy, when I'm overwhelmed. And I like try and find 20 minutes to lay down on the couch, on my bed, whatever, in all of my clothes, whatever, my makeup, and just take that time for me and breathe and really focus on the energy because meditation is about moving your energy. And so when we had our practice on Friday and you really talked about the body movements and bringing the energy back to you, it was almost like a form of meditation, but like that you can kind of spread throughout your day. So that is that's the long story of what I do to kind of ground and center myself in the today's life.
SPEAKER_00In today's life, okay. Yes, so many things. First, I just will mention Hannah and I um did something the other day. I came into her community, which is stunning and amazing and so inspiring, and you must check her out. Um, and I did the power of gesture, which is part meditation. We use visualization, it's music in our hands. And it's it's it's science-based, there's connection between the brain and the hands. I'm and the reason you felt what you felt is because there is this neurological component, there is this relationship, the hands have that power to kind of calm us and put us into that meditative state and allow us to embody the energy as well. So we're we're moving, but just with our hands. So it doesn't just stay in the mind, it actually moves through the body, and then so much happens from there. I'm curious when you meditate, what does that look like for you? Before our session, I can't imagine you were using your hands, or maybe you were. It sounds like you would find a quiet place to relax and chill somewhere. And so I'm I'm just curious about what that was, what that's like for you and how you do that. And do you ever like fall asleep because you're lying down? Or yeah, tell us a little bit about it more detailed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, of course. So I'm a huge Joe Dispenza fan. I've listened to some of his audiobooks. He has several different guided meditations, so I feel like that's very helpful because it walks you through pretty much like, you know, your everyday conscious, active mind into this more meditative state and things that you should focus on. And the one that I really love doing, it's a guided morning meditation, even though I kind of do it throughout the day as needed. I I personally love doing it in the middle of the day or before I go to bed because before you go to bed, you're in a different brave uh brain wavelength that like what you think about actually it's like on a different energetic level. And so it almost is more like manifestation sort of vibes, like you can almost reset your brain. And so you he he guides you through focusing on the energy like between your ears in the room and then your throat in the room and like different parts of your body, so there isn't movement, but you are aware of the energy moving through your body and around your body, and so then you can almost and you can almost kind of tap into that and really feel it, which is crazy. And it's taken me a while, but I can feel my vibration, my internal vibration raise throughout the course of the meditation, but it's intentional. Like I think about doing it, so it's not like I just lay there and like doze off, or I lay there and like zone out, it's more of a conscious thing, and I think about maybe things that I'm working towards or things that you know I want to let go of and um things that you know I would like to happen, and it's just like a very positive reinforcement, yeah, energetically, but also it it brings you into this state where like those things can't happen. So that's what I do. So I don't, I I've never fallen asleep. I will say though, I'm not much of a napper at all. I can barely nap. So maybe that's why. Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I love, love, love that. So we definitely want to try and maybe drop that in the show notes um because that sounds like a great meditation. I know people are always looking for new things to do. So now tell us about I find your journey so interesting. And I think our listeners are just gonna get so much from you because the steps you've taken, the choices you've made, the detours in the right direction, they all really took a lot of courage and you've made a lot of shifts and you're empowering a lot of people. So I would love for you to just talk about your journey a little bit and what led you. Like this podcast really is focused so much on the wisdom from within, that intelligence that guides us. And sometimes we ignore it and sometimes we trust it. And this is all about helping people really learn how to trust it and be inspired to trust it because when you do, it can lead you to success like you're having. So that's really the goal and the lens that I want to look through. Um, so yeah, can you speak to us about you? Of course.
SPEAKER_03Happy to do that. I'm so excited to be here. And you know, I think something that you had mentioned earlier on, um, I was a D1 athlete. So I had swam competitively since I was the age of eight years old. And I had tried every sport. It was one of those things where my parents were trying to figure out, like, okay, she needs a hobby, she needs something to do. I tried probably 15 sports and I was terrible at everything. And swimming was the one thing that I turned out to be pretty good at. And I remember one day I was walking from my safety like swim lesson with my mom, and I pointed to the lap pool and I was like, I want to do that. And she looked at me and she's like, Are you sure? That doesn't look very fun, but if you want, I'll sign you up. And so I remember she signed me up for my first swim team uh class, and I was like, This is what I want to do. And I was really, you know, talented for somebody who had never done that before. A lot of these kids start when they're four years old, and so it felt it felt right to me. And I was like, wow, when you find something that you're good at, yeah, it's almost like this identity shift, and you kind of build this perception of yourself around that. And so when I found this, I was like, this is who I am. And so it became a huge part of my life. I was always Hannah the swimmer. Uh, we'd go to swim meets, I'd swim every day after school. Um, you know, and being one of the better ones for my age group on my team, you get a sense of accomplishment from that because you're like, this is my thing. Like it gives you that fulfillment. I love to swim.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03And, you know, at school, I was always a little bit on the nerdier side. I loved books, I loved this and that. And so swimming was really where I felt like I had fit in. And so, you know, fast forward, I ended up getting recruited for college. And at this point, I knew that I wasn't going to do professional swimming. I knew that I was gonna take it as far as I could in college and get a degree and like do all the things and really focus on my corporate career after that. Um, and so I ended up getting scholarships from Vanderbilt, uh Rice. I had offers from Princeton, Brown, you know, all of those schools. And so it was really, it was like a very like, wow, this is I'm so blessed to be able to do what I'm doing. And I had offers to take it to the next level.
SPEAKER_00Incredible.
SPEAKER_03And um, I had remembered, I love my parents. They were always like, you can't get a history degree. You need to get something that's gonna pay your bills because they were always very empowering. They were always very much like, if you want something, you can do it. So we were a very big chore household, like, okay, if you want that, you know, you gotta do your tour, save up your money. We're not gonna just give you the credit card. So I think from a very young age, I was always taught to like go after what you want. Like, if somebody else can do it, you can do it too. And that was one of the things that I loved about swimming because it was up to me. Swimming is you're on a team, but it's a very individual sport. So you really have to rely on yourself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I always knew that, like, okay, if I work really hard, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna make my goals. Like it's not up to anybody else. It's fully like full accountability on me.
SPEAKER_02Love it.
SPEAKER_03And so that transferred into you know, school and that transferred into swimming. I ended up going to rice and I decided to do political science thinking I wanted to be a lawyer. And um, I did get into rice not only through academics, I was strong academically, but also through my sport because you know, I had decided, yeah, I could go to a you know, a bigger school and just be on the swim team and do that. But like I want to go to a school where I maximize my academics as well, and maybe I wouldn't have gotten in on my own just academically. So this was something that was almost like uh a payoff for all of my hours swimming, yeah. Yeah, and could you know, and dedicating myself to my sport. So I went to Rice and this is where I started having more of an identity shift. And maybe this is where, you know, I started having a crisis. And so I at school, I went to a big public high school with 4,000 kids and I was in all of the AP, like the honors classes, and I was always very confident and outgoing and uh never afraid to really put myself out there because I I had positive reinforcement of like, oh, I'm gonna raise my hand, I'm pretty sure my answer is good, and like the teacher's gonna say so, or nobody's gonna judge me, or I had this self-confidence. Yeah, that disappeared when I went to rice because not only, you know, not only is it the highest caliber people of all the country, right? Like the professors are, you know, extremely tough, and they had this disdain towards athletes in a way because they had this belief they don't deserve to be there if they didn't get in on their own, which is incredibly harmful to all of the student athletes.
SPEAKER_00Wow, they made that known like you could really feel that.
SPEAKER_03Oh, it was terrible, and I I actually will say it was worse towards like the football and baseball team and all of that, you know. But like the swim team had the highest GPA. Our our the women on our team were like doctors, pre-med, stats majors, biochemists, like insanely smart, 4.0's, and we still dealt with this weird sort of judgment. And it was almost there before we even got to prove ourselves, which you walk in and you have no idea. And then it starts to dawn on you. When I started raising my hands as a freshman and started getting the teacher, the professor would look at me and kind of give me a look and be like, okay, does anybody else have an answer? Or things that slowly away. And I I was like scarred and I I I had thoughts. Like, I'm like, I'm not that was so mortifying. I'm never gonna raise my hand. And then, of course, somebody else would follow up with like some insane encyclopedia answer, and I was like, I must be the dumbest person in this room. And so it was really hard. Yeah, it was really, it was like kind of traumatizing, and I had this lack of confidence. And you know, I was great at my event on the swim team, so I had my event that I was pretty much the best at. And so I was like, okay, I have my identity in this, but like my school identity has been stripped away essentially. Right. And I remember when I was in public speaking classes or communication classes, I started having like full-blown anxiety attacks before I would have to present. And that had never happened before. I am a very expressive person, as you know. I liked, I also love to use my hands. I am like to use my facial expressions. That's always how I've been, who I've been. And in college, that got stripped away. And I remember I would literally be, I'd be as stiff as a board. And if I moved my hands, they would look they would start shaking. Right. And so then I would keep them glued to my side, and I would just try and memorize everything and get through everything I needed to as fast as I needed to.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_03And I would, I remember I had an Apple Watch and my heart rate, it would show that I was working out. It would be like you're in like the red zone of working out anytime I presented. Yes. And so I didn't again, so I didn't have my ability to express and kind of be who I was and shift this energy. So I had this nervous, panicky energy, and it really reinforced it because then I'd have a bad presentation and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's true. Like I'm so bad at this. And it was a negative feedback cycle. And so eventually, you know, I moved into the corporate world and I I I did well with interviews, but then, you know, I started working in private equity on the investor relations team. And a big part of that is being able to pitch your firm to investors. And so there's a huge presentation aspect that goes with that. And I remember when I first started out, I was so nervous. And obviously, as an analyst, it wasn't like I'm going in front of these big, you know, directors of research at pension funds or endowments. So I had this like blanket of safety of like, okay, they're not gonna ask me. I'm the youngest one, I'm the analyst, like I have time to learn everything.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03And I remember there would be points when I needed to say something or speak in the meeting, and I would just be repeating it in my head over and over and over and over again until I'd have to say what I needed to say.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_03And it was petrifying. And I remember asking, I moved to a new firm as an associate. So I started moving my way up. And I remember asking my um my my managing director, like one of the partners, how do you not get nervous when you present? Right. How do you do it? Because you're going in front of these pretty much leaders in finance all over the world, people that are in charge of billions of dollars. Right. Your firm hinges on that. Like, how do you not get nervous? I would I was petrified even thinking of that. And he told me, obviously, he's 60, and he's like, you know, I took it took me a while, but it I realized that the people in the crowd listening to me did not know anything or any more about the topic that I was presenting on than I did. So nobody was really gonna be able to point out, like, oh, he missed a sentence here, he missed a point on this or that. And so he was like, in a way, you're telling this story to them, and they don't know how the story is gonna end. So there's really no judgment. It's really kind of up to you, and you just can't let it get in your head. Like their mothers, their daughters, their sons, their cousins, their uncles at the end of the day, dealing with real problems, listening to you present. It's just kind of he just kind of like made it seem more of a normal thing instead of this monumental, yeah, anxiety-driven event that I had always thought these things were. And so we need more people like him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And that kind of started shifting my perspective. And I'm like, okay, these are people at the end of the day. Like, they're not some monsters, they're not super judgmental, they're just at the end of the day paying their bills, doing their job, and they're like me. Right. And so I started slowly putting myself out there more and more. And I had really supportive bosses. And, you know, one of the things that helped me with that. Was looking my best and feeling my best. Here we go, ladies.
SPEAKER_00And then listen to this part. I know it's getting juicy now. Okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_03And so I had again when I when I graduated and I stopped swimming, I had lost that form of identity and that form of expression. Right, right, right. And there was about a year or two where I was pretty depressed because I didn't know who I was and I didn't know how to show who I was because swimming had always done that for me. My swimming had, I'd always been Hannah the swimmer, Hannah who swam at Rice, Hannah who did this. And I remember being like, wow, is this what the rest of my life is going to look like when I started my first corporate job? Just thinking, like, I'm so unhappy. I'm, you know, working from home post-COVID, in workout clothes. Like, I this this is so depressing. And so I remember when I got my investor relations job and I started going into the office, I was like, wait, this is fun because I can express myself through what I wear. And that's people's first impression of me. And so if I look the part and I dress the part and I act the part, I become the part. And not only do I become the part, not only do I show myself that I am the part, but other people started to treat me as such too. Right. So if you show up for how you want people to perceive and treat you, not only do they treat you that way, but like you believe in yourself and you reel it back into who you actually are.
SPEAKER_01I love that.
SPEAKER_03No matter if that is, you know, somebody who's wearing pinstriped suits every single day, and that's what makes them happy and feel like their best, most polished version of themselves to do what they need to do at work. Great. I realized for me, I loved colors. I loved doing my makeup and making my hair done and presenting myself very polished because that's deep down, that's who I am as a person, and that's what makes me happy, and that's what makes me feel my most authentic, whether I'm in the office or outside of the office. So instead of having my colorful, fun, tailored wardrobe that I had for outside of work, I started to bring that inside of my work wardrobe. And so I started to play around with it a little bit. And most of my firms have been all men. So, you know, they're wearing their navy suits, they're wearing their black suits. So there's not a lot of variety that goes on there, not a lot of color. And I started deciding I'm gonna wear dresses, I'm gonna wear skirts. Obviously, everything, you know, dress code appropriate, very professional, but there's so many different ways that you can get creative and play around with it. And so I remember I started really getting enjoyment of like, oh, I'm gonna wear this to this presentation today, or I'm gonna wear this to this meeting, I'm gonna get it tailored, I'm gonna, you know, make sure I feel the part so that I can show up as the most authentic version of myself. That is the part. And so that really helped with that imposter syndrome because so many of us think to fit in, no matter if it's a job, a friend group, or whatever, that you have to be like everybody else to fit in. But reality, it's the opposite. Because if you're trying to be like everybody else, you're not your most authentic. Therefore, it's never gonna be a fit. And if it is a fit when you're trying to be everybody else, chances are you're doing the wrong thing or you're with the wrong people because you're not being true to who you are and you're trying to be somebody else to get whatever result. And so I started really doing that. And that is one of the reasons why I started posting on online. It was a creative outlet. I started dressing for myself, you know, a few years ago, and I really thought it's it was great. Like I had other coworkers too who would be like, Hey, where'd you get that skirt or where do you get those shoes? And it was something I enjoy talking about. I'd be like, Yeah, they're great quality, they're comfortable for the train, super great, whatever. And so it became this thing. And I started getting friends reaching out to me. And, you know, it I was like, wow, okay, maybe, maybe I'm not so bad at this.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Okay.
SPEAKER_03I would tell them, I'm like, I got it on sale here, or they have it here, whatever. And I was always like a very much like bargain hunter because I hated for paying for things full price, right? And it's like, yeah, you know, and so I'd always put my friends on. And um, I remember I started posting online with no expectation, just like, hey, this is another creative outlet for me. I obviously love my job, but I still felt like there was a little something missing. I had gotten closer to who I was in a more genuine version of myself through, you know, how I put myself together and how I how I present myself. But I also wanted to help others in a way or like show people, hey, like I do this, you can do this too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so I remember I started filming like days in my life working in private equity, and I would think about my outfit the day before and be like, okay, I'm gonna wear this for this video. And it would be like it was such an exciting thing, and it started to really take take off. And I was like, people are interested in this, like, this is crazy. I know I had anybody who's watching my videos, right? Like, right, right, right. And then people started asking, like, hey, where did you get this? Where did you get that? Like, can you start doing like corporate outfit recks? And I was like, Of course, I I love that. And um, you know, that's kind of how it took off. And really, again, I had no idea that it was going to be a full-time thing. Uh, for the time being, I was getting this huge sense of purpose through the scalability of connecting with people. I realized what I love to do is I love to connect with people, and that was the aspect of um my fundraising investor relations jobs that I loved. I was very front-facing, I was talking to people, I was connecting and making connections and all of the things, bringing people together. I realized I could do that on a large scale on social media. And that was the turning point for me because I was like, not only can I show people how to be confident or things that have worked for me, maybe it'll help somebody. I don't know. But I can show them like my journey, what I did. And if I can do it, you definitely can do it too. And like, don't let other people's box that they put you in affect how you should show up for you. Because at the end of the day, if wearing a navy suit makes you happy to work, great. And if it doesn't, why are you doing it?
SPEAKER_00Right at the end of the day. At the end of the day, yeah, not because it's all at the end of the day, yeah. That should be the name of the thing. At the end of the day, because right, and I I know that you would agree, if we're in our highest energy, if we're in that joy and we're in that bliss, and we're then we attract, we attract the right things, we attract the right people, and we serve at a much higher level. Wouldn't you agree with that? A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's when my personal self-doubt started to melt away, actually. And it's crazy because when I started moving into that more authentic version of myself, and I noticed that I felt more comfortable speaking up or you know, walking into a room and putting my shoulders back and you know, having conviction in what I was saying, and people started reacting as such. Yes, and that's how I changed that negative feedback cycle in my head that I had in college to wait a second, I reversed the wheel and then it was positive and positive, and then it just became more and more, more, more, more to the point where I felt comfortable enough to start posting on social media, knowing that friends, coworkers, people were gonna see it and judge me. And I got to the point where I was like, I don't really care. I don't care because this is something that makes me happy. And if it helps at least one other person, that's great. And that makes me happy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, there's so many things here. I I I love the natural journey of all of this. I love the organic flow. Like, I'm gonna do this. I don't even know. You were surprised when people started showing up and inquiring and asking. It wasn't like you were reaching for that celebrity that you were reaching for something. It wasn't about money, it wasn't about anything. It was just you showing up as you and your journey led you to that. Everything in your life led you to that. What a, what, what a foundation you had and what great parents you had, and the swimming and this theme of identity, I think is very interesting for you. And I think so many people, including myself, can definitely relate. Just that our identity shifts throughout time. And it can be a positive shift. We don't have to look at something as a loss necessarily, but more as a detour in the right direction or a shift in the right direction. Because as a swimmer, that feeling and that that I love your whole piece about the swimming and how you were alone in your thoughts, and that was your safe space, but that was your identity, and then how that shifted, and then you became more open and raising your hand, and it became more than just you. So the evolution is just so incredibly beautiful. I want to give you an opportunity to just speak about that identity piece because I think that's really, really huge, especially in your story and how many you've shifted into.
SPEAKER_03So I think identity comes from what other people in the world perceive you as. And so when we're good at something, whether it's a sport or whether it's academics or you have a talent or whatever, that almost molds how other people see you, but how you see yourself. And I think that I, when I lost my original identity, I didn't know who I was. Like, you know, I didn't know what made me happy. Swimming, I had always gotten a sense of accomplishment after a good race, after, you know, a good swim meet or a tournament, or I hit my goal that I wanted to hit that I was working towards. And I lost that when I stopped swimming. And I think that corporate, you can set goals for yourself, but there's a there's a very set structure in a way. So there's, for example, you can work as hard as you can as an analyst. You're never gonna be a vice president in a year, you're never gonna be a managing director in a year. Like it doesn't matter, right? And so there are certain things where there's almost less of a limit. And then when you move into the corporate world, there's a structure that kind of keeps you in place. Right. And so I had this almost loss of ambition because I was like, yeah, it doesn't matter how many hours this week I work, right? My pay's staying the same at the end of the year, probably for the next couple of years. Like it doesn't matter how much of myself that I dedicate into this or how much I lose or sacrifice, I'm not getting an equal return. And so that was really hard for me to grasp because my whole life I had this correlation of school, you work hard, you get better grades, right? It's it's positive. Yeah, same thing with swimming, it's an upgrade.
SPEAKER_00You work hard, climb and exactly, yeah, and it's up to you.
SPEAKER_03And so when you move into this corporate world, it's not up to you anymore. Of course, like to an extent, you want to be a good employee and do your best, but like after that, there is no, there's nothing really that will show for that sacrifice. Yeah, and I think that that was what almost had caused me this like depression because I was like, This is the rest of my life, like I'm not doing anything for me anymore. Swimming, I was doing for me. Yeah, and it was one of those things that my parents never forced me to. My dad didn't even know my events until I graduated. He was always like, Great job, sweetheart, like you did so good. And he'd be like filming the wrong swimmer. And I'm like, Dad, that wasn't even me. And I, you know, he was just always my parents were always supportive. It was never like you have to do this. So I did it for myself, yeah, which is why I think that I loved it and I had my level of success that I did. And so when I started social media, I was doing it for myself. Yeah. And I didn't know that it would become an identity or this or that, and I still wasn't fully sure of this identity, even though I had started wearing what I wanted to wear and kind of becoming who I wanted to become. I still wasn't fully certain. And I think that by putting myself out there and exposing myself and opening myself up to all of these different people and you know, places and things and judgment too. Yeah, it really made me sure of who I was and who I wasn't. Yeah. And in a way, it unexpectedly helped me figure out like, what makes me happy? What's my passion and what's my identity and what's my purpose?
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, what's interesting about all of this too is I think uh many of us, and I too, I think we're all kind of guilty of that comparison, right? Where we might look at someone like you, someone might be listening to this and saying, oh, well, I want to do that and I want to find that level of happiness and freedom and identity that I feel aligned with. And I will say, I know this to be true, that whatever season you're in, anyone is exactly right. This is what I believe is so true that no matter what is happening in the chapter of your life that you're in, whether you're having a lot of sadness or that depression, or you're feeling anxious, or you're not happy, knowing that that is a building block. That is a building block to get to the ultimate happiness. And I think that's really important because on social media and listening to podcasts like this, we look at success and go, I want that. I just want to get to that, as opposed to turn going back to like the original thing, theme that we spoke about in this podcast is the now, here and now. And I'm guilty of this too. I want certain things and I'm not there yet, you know, personal, professional, whatever it is. And I'm always in that state of return to the present, choosing love, not fear, holding on to the body with the power of gesture that I created, you know, to physically hold on to the body and use the gestures to reconnect and remember and not never question. So I just think it's really important that we all remember that we are where we are and to use wherever we are as that stepping tone, as that opportunity to learn what it is we want to do and what it is we don't want to do. You know what I'm saying? 100%. I I had no idea.
SPEAKER_03And I a hundred I agree with your point. Like, if you would have told me a year ago I would be doing social media full time, I'd probably laugh at you. There were there was a time maybe two or three years ago where I remember where I was like, wow, I would love to do that. I would love to post online and I would love to do that full time. And I remember I had tried once, but it was like a very half-hearted attempt. And I was like, oh no, I'm not gonna do that. You know, and part of it is you get in your own way. Yeah. And I think the biggest thing to getting what you eventually want in life is to not get in your own way, but to be present and to take the steps that scare you.
SPEAKER_00And my biggest thing is growth happens when you're uncomfortable. What's the most uncomfortable you've been in? Like what if you could name one moment where you're like, okay, this feels fucking hard. I'm scared out of my mind, but you did it anyway. Can you think of that moment?
SPEAKER_03I can give you professional and personal. So obviously, personal was when I started posting online and I'm like, this my I'm gonna have friends and family and judge because everybody hates to be seen trying, right? Everybody just wants the success, right? Nobody wants to be seen trying because there's always a chance of failure. Right. And so you don't, you're afraid of that judgment. And so once I put that behind me and I'm like, this could go terribly wrong. This could be so embarrassing, this could be whatever. I was like, I'm gonna do it. And so that was very scary and it was uncomfortable. And to film myself in public is also it was it was very uncomfortable because people look at you and they laugh and they're like, oh my gosh, what is this girl doing? Like, that's so embarrassing. But deep down, people wish they had the confidence to be able to do that. Yeah, and so that's what I shifted because I'm like, okay, great. Like, do these people really have any control over my life? Do they affect my paycheck? Do they affect my happiness? Like any of that? And the answer is no. So I'm like, why am I gonna give them the power to limit me doing something that I want to do?
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna chime in real quick. Don't forget your second point, but I want to, you got it? Okay. Um, but I want to just chime in here and say what I think you're doing is not only overcoming that, like, what you know, thought process around what are people thinking and oh, they're gonna laugh. You're really doing an act of service, not just your work, which is of course of service, but by actually doing the process of your work, because you are right that most people want to have that confidence and that give themselves permission to be messy and silly and take a chance. And it's really hard. And I understand that I work a lot with those people and I get it. And I was one of those people one time as well. But you're just being out there on the streets and putting yourself out there and recording and doing your social, that is an act of service because you're really showing people, hey, you know, if I can do it, you can do it too. And they're and they look at you and say, Wow, and maybe something lights up inside of them, and then privately they start trying it, and then publicly it'll come out eventually. So I just wanted to throw that out there as well. Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, and I agree with that, and that's what that's also what I would hope. I hope somebody sees like, oh, she if she can film herself doing this, like so can I, no matter what it's what it's about, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, and then you had another point, the professional thing. Yeah, I remember I just started a new job. It was um, I was still pretty young, and I had to pitch our firm, but it was unexpected. And the CEO came into my office and he's like, Yeah, it's time for you to present to me and the other partners. And I remember shaking, I had just gotten my coffee, I was having that anxiety, I was shaking. I'm like, oh my gosh, I just started, I feel like I don't know anything. And I had had to change my thought. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this. Like, I don't have a choice, I have to go in there and I'm gonna do my best. And like, you know what? The first time I do, it's gonna be hard. But then every time after that, it's gonna be a little easier. And so I remember I went in his office and I did my pitch and I presented and it went well. And he was like, that was great. We're ready to put you in front of investors, we're ready to put you, you know, send you conferences. And I remember being scared, like scared out of my pants. I'm like, oh my gosh, they know the firm better than any anybody else. So this time, like, I can't mess up because they know exactly what I'm pitching. And um, you know, you just sometimes have to dive into the deep end. And there's this saying that I love um, and it's it's about leaning in. So you can run away from discomfort, pain, and all of this stuff, right? Or you can lean in. And so when I get to these points, I'm like, you know what? I'm going in head first. I'm gonna lean in and it's gonna be uncomfortable, but it's gonna be okay. And so I will just go all in, lean into the pain, lean into the uncomfort, don't run away from it, right? Like, because we have this thing of running away from fear, discomfort, and what that's not where growth happens, and that's why people stay unhappy or they have these, oh, I wish I could do that, or I wish I could do this. And it's really it's up to you to be able to just like put on your hard cap and like do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's not as hard as we think. It really does come down to choice, and I know the choice can be uncomfortable. It's everything we've talked about, it's that discomfort, but that is where the growth happens, like you said, and it is where the love expands, and it is where the service within ourselves flourishes for others. So I'm all about that. Wow, wow, wow, what an incredible, amazing conversation with you. I'm so happy that you're here talking to me and to all of the listeners. Tell us like, how do people get to know you? How do people find out more about what you're doing? Give us the scoop.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so I have social media accounts. I'm on Instagram and TikTok under Wall Street Wardrobe. Um, I also run an international women's community, which is now my full-time passion, my full-time thing. I love it. And my favorite part is being surrounded by so many amazing women from all over the world, different careers, different cities. Because one of the things that I had felt when I was in corporate was that I felt very alone. And so, aside from the whole identity crisis and, you know, the wardrobe and all of that, I was one of the only women in the room pretty much at all times. And on top of that, I was all also the youngest one. So I was navigating two different aspects of that by myself. And at times it felt lonely. And I remember something in me changed when I went to a women's conference and I realized the energy is so different, the connection, the community. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I love my male coworkers, they're great, but there's something be being surrounded by people that get it, that understand, that have gone through similar things. And it really, again, it doesn't matter the industry. We go through the same things in finance as women do in law or medicine. And a lot of the times, you know, it's not talked about enough. And so I created Wall Street Women as this community where we do meetups, we have wonderful guest speakers like Jen on Friday to help uh navigate like the things that we go through collectively, not only in the workplace, but outside of the workplace, because again, life is not all work, right? Like in your personal life affects your your professional life, quite frankly. And so having that sense of connection and that I'm not alone and I have a mentor, I have somebody who's gone through this, it's such a it's like a safe feeling. And so that's the wonderful thing about the community that we've created. So we have Wall Street Women Group on Instagram, we have a website, a LinkedIn, and I'm also on YouTube under Wall Street Wardrobe. And so that's a little bit more of my personal, like unserious life, and everything else is on Instagram, though.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, uh Ma Zing. Thank you so much for being here. I so appreciate you. And I love that the not only the title, but the subtitle of this podcast, the Wisdom from Within Podcast, where human stories awaken the leader from within, right? Inner leadership. And that is what you are such an example of. You really allowed that wisdom to emerge. And not only did it emerge, you trusted it and you allowed it to lead your life. And now you're doing what you're doing. And so I'm so grateful to you. Thank you for being here. I'll see everyone next week on Wisdom from Within. Take care. Thank you so much, Jen. You're so welcome. If something in this conversation spoke to you, don't keep it to yourself. Send it to someone who might need that message too. You can also send me a comment because I would love to know what it is that landed for you. But most importantly, take a moment to pause and listen to what it is that resonated because that's where your real guidance system lives. The one you can trust, the one you can rely on. See you next week.