Wisdom from Within
Welcome to The Wisdom from Within podcast, I am Jen Aks and this is where we access mindset and bodyset - connecting both so that we can create the genuine, authentic, impact in our own lives and the lives we serve.
We get there by having conversations with industry leaders, scientists, executives, parents, your neighbors. These are conversations that reveal the intelligence your body already holds—and my mission is to help you awaken, trust so you can let it lead you into your greatest success.
Wisdom from Within
Your Nervous System Might Be Causing Your Pain | Ep 19
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Welcome to Wisdom From Within, where mindset meets bodyset, and we reconnect with the hidden intelligence within us. Each week, we explore the wisdom living in our bodies, our experiences, and our deepest truths, guiding us to live and lead from a place of alignment and authenticity.
After the sudden loss of her mother, Jane Hogan developed debilitating joint pain that quickly progressed into a diagnosis of rheumatoid arthritis. But instead of accepting pain as her future, she began asking a different question: What is my body trying to tell me?
In this inspiring conversation, Jane shares how calming her nervous system, healing emotional wounds, and learning to trust her body's wisdom transformed her health and ultimately led her to help thousands of others overcome chronic pain. This episode explores the powerful connection between stress, the brain, the nervous system, and the body's remarkable ability to heal.
In this space, we remember that our bodies carry their own wisdom. The quiet guidance we’ve always had, the instincts that have steered us before we could explain why. Your body is speaking. When we slow down and listen, we reconnect with that inner knowing.💜
Quote: "Just by being calm, loving, and compassionate, you're creating a ripple in the world."
Chapters
05:30 – The Voice That Changed Everything
09:00 – Rheumatoid Arthritis & Healing From the Inside Out
15:00 – Why Pain Is Actually Protection
19:00 – Healing Childhood Patterns & Calming the Nervous System
25:00 – Learning to Trust Your Body's Wisdom
31:00 – Simple Practices to Access Your Intuition
37:30 – Becoming the Calm Ripple the World Needs
https://jenaks.com/
My Book: Your Body is Speaking
IG: https://www.instagram.com/jen_aks/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/jennferaks
YT: https://www.youtube.com/@jen_aks
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenaks/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jen_aks
🎵 Music by Max Lilivois @prd.maxxell
So, for those of you that are having pain in your body, if you're having joint pain, arthritis, you've been diagnosed with something recently, you're gonna want to listen to this episode because Jane Hogan has been through it all. The thing that I loved so much, and I want you to really pay attention to is that a lot of that pain in the body can be resolved by calming the nervous system. So if we learn techniques on how to calm our bodies, we will avoid the pain that could have come had we not. So I hope that you listen to the end, leave comments, connect with Jane. This is really, really good stuff. All right, let's get started. Welcome to the Wisdom from Within podcast. My name is Jen Ax, and I am your host. This is where mindset meets bodyset, where we access both so that we can make the most genuine, authentic, empowered impact on those we love and those we serve. Let's get started. Jane.
SPEAKER_00It's so good to have you here. Oh my goodness. It's so good to be here. I just I think you're wonderful. I love what you do. I'm really excited for you in this brand new podcast. And thank you. Yeah, just really excited.
SPEAKER_02Well, I am lucky. I feel so lucky every week to be meeting with extraordinary leaders, extraordinary people that are doing such beautiful things in the world. And it is the mission here on the Wisdom from Within podcast to really help people connect to their innate wisdom, to their intelligence, and really share why it's so important and how do we listen to it and what is possible when we do. And so I thank you for being here and sharing your story and your expertise. I'll share with the listeners that Jane is the wellness engineer. She is a neuroscience-based mind-body educator, health coach, and wellness leader, helping people release chronic pain by rewiring their brain and calming their nervous system. Such incredible work. Through her wellness by design podcast, best-selling book, Pain Free on Purpose. Use your mind to heal your body and get your life back on track. And her transformative programs calm by design and living pain-free. Jane has guided thousands of people to retain their nervous systems, restore vitality, and return to a state of peace and possibility. Yes. Why? Welcome and why. Like I just I just want to dive in because I would love for you to explain why. Why do we want to calm our nervous system? Oh my goodness. Yes.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's it's really everything. And what I learned in my journey, because I was working as an engineer and I had had this incredibly stressful year that started with my mother dying suddenly, and then also dealing with her estate, uh, siblings, uh house full of furniture and collections. It was a lot to deal with. And so yeah, my nervous system was just like, you know, I didn't really know what it was then. I just knew like I'm stressed, I'm like shaky all the time, and and my heart's racing, and I'm not sleeping. Um, and then about a year into that, I I started started to get pain throughout my body, and it was like I knew that it had to be related to stress. And um, we'll talk about like wisdom from within, like you know, it was so obvious to me. It wasn't like I suddenly I would develop pain. Um for no reason, right? It had to be linked.
SPEAKER_02And how did you did you make that link? Did you make that link immediately or did that take you time?
SPEAKER_00Um, well, initially, you know, like I had I had some pain in my feet, and I thought, okay, I'm 50. I guess I need to get orthotics.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And then it was like, oh, you know, my hands are aching. I guess I was doing a lot of painting, you know, and stuff, getting the house ready. So I thought it'll go away. And it didn't. Um, and then, you know, it it was moving around. That was what was really weird. Like my one shoulder would be in so much pain, I'd have to put a like I never did this, but I had to put my arm in a sling. And then the next day that shoulder was fine and it was the other shoulder. So it was just weird, you know, and it went all it went all through my body. And um, anyway, how long did you?
SPEAKER_02I'm sorry, I know we're gonna get back on track, but I'm just curious, what did you start making links? Like, okay, when did you start listening to that? Or you're probably gonna get to that. So I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, I, you know, I was I thought, okay, I just need to get my mother's like all the contents dealt with, get the household, I'll be fine. And so I did that, and I thought, okay, I'll be fine. And then I was still in pain, so I thought I just need to take some time off work, right? And so I did that, and I was still in pain. In fact, everything was getting worse, and I didn't know what it was. And this is where I had it sounds really strange. So my husband had gone to work, I was home, like waking up, and this is how I used to wake up in the mornings like I go, you know, you wake up and you're sort of in that little dreamland, and then I go, I'd start to like feel my body and go, Oh my gosh, the pain is still there. It's like it's not a bad dream, it's real. And I just so I was 50 when this happened. I was a few years away from retirement. My husband's a little bit older than me, and he was very close to retirement. And you know, we had planned all our for years for these, you know, retirement years, golden years, freedom years. And here I was in pain, not knowing what it was. I thought, I'm not gonna be able to do anything. I'm just a burden. Like this is I thought I'm letting everybody down, including me. And I had this thought as I was lying there in bed, curled up in pain, that if this is the way my life is gonna be, I'm kind of ready to be done. Like, and I I wasn't suicidal, like ready to do anything then, but I that was sort of the first thought. Like, first time that crept into my head. I I'm better off not here, you know? And in the next moment, I know it's gonna sound really weird, but I heard a voice that wasn't my voice, but it was in my head. It wasn't like I was listening with my ears. I just heard this voice in my head, and it's just like, this is not how your life is going to turn out. You're going to this figure this out, and you're going to teach other people.
SPEAKER_02Wait, how did this voice communicate to you?
SPEAKER_00I just I heard it in my head. Like it was sort of like I was at that that rock bottom like moment, all curl up, like I'm ready to be done. And then it was like this hope, this feeling of hope and hearing. And so I was still in pain, but from that moment on, what'd you do?
SPEAKER_02What'd you do in that moment? Like you heard the voice, and then what'd you do?
SPEAKER_00I was like, Oh, I was like, okay, I'll wipe my tears up. But I uh it was just like I had this deep knowing that I was gonna figure this out, okay. And if I'm going to figure this out, I can't lie here saying I'm ready to be done.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And so I think I just got up and said, All right, let's let's start.
SPEAKER_02Good for you. And then what happened? What was the next step that you took?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it was around a week later that um, so I've been obviously seeing my doctor, you know, what what's going on and getting blood work and all this kind of stuff. And so when I went to see my doctor, she said, Well, nothing is really showing up in your blood work. Um, but sometimes, and and so this was 2016. This seemed like a crazy idea to me, but she said, Sometimes food can cause joint pain.
unknownI'm like, what?
SPEAKER_00That's crazy. How can anything you eat have something to do with your joints? I mean, I think it's a lot different now. People are hearing more about it, but back in 2016, it was 10 years ago, right? Um, this was like seemed like a crazy idea to me. But she said, gluten, dairy, and sugar were them were the common culprits. And so I'm like, okay, this is part of me figuring it out and just being an engineer and like, you know, very the science mind. I'm like, okay, I will do this experiment, see what happens, track things. And so I but I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't even know that this was called an anti-inflammatory type of diet. All I knew was I'll just stop eating bread and pasta and sugar. Actually, I it was dear, she just told me gluten and dairy, but the only time I had sugar was in baked things. So I I cut out sugar at the same time too. And um, so what I noticed was within about a week I had like noticeably less pain. I still had a week noticeable. That's incredible in a week. Yeah. Okay. So so that just started me on a path of then feeling empowered. So I had that that inner voice, yes, which gave me the you know that deep wisdom from within. Yes, to know I will figure this out. It's just I need to, you know, find the right path. And then that took me to try this out, right? And seeing some results, and I was tracking things. I'm like, okay, all right, we'll just keep going. Then I discovered, okay, food is medicine. And I thought, oh, I've just got to find the right foods to eat, the right foods to not eat, and I'll be fine. Wow. That was part of it, but I would say what I realized so so I guess to kind of like go a little bit backwards, I I was in in a within a few months diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune condition. Now, every autoimmune condition does have a uh gut health component because usually what happens is uh for some reason, which I think it's the nervous system, um, we stop digesting well, which means then bad bacteria can build up and you know we're then we start not absorbing nutrients. I was actually low in iron, so that made sense. And also the gut becomes leaky. It's kind of that's a pretty familiar term now. A lot of people have heard the term leaky gut, which basically means that that membrane that's around our small and small small intestine, yeah, the small intestine is only one cell thick. And it so if that gets damaged, then the foods that we're eating start leaking through the immune systems on the other side, it gets triggered, and then it's it then it gets confused and it starts launching a campaign. So for me, it launched a campaign, you know, at my joints. Um, but why did my why did all this begin to happen? I thought, okay, it's just that, you know, my gut's leaky and I gotta fix my gut. Right. My gut became leaky because of the nervous system. It's one of the the digestive system is one of the first systems to kind of go offline when our brain and nervous system think we're in fight or flight and you know we got to be fighting for our lives.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so many things here, so many. I know it's incredible and so important because the nervous system can be handled with the right tools, and then we could avoid these leaky gut symptoms, right? So it's like we could back it up and and and figure this out prior to that happening. So I want to talk about that. But the other thing I want to talk about is how this voice from within you spoke to you probably many more times than what I'm about to mention. But the two times were the one when you're on the floor, and then the second time when you were faced with all of this information and you're like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm gonna do this because it feels right, it seems right. And then the voice you said said to you, you're gonna figure this out. So that right there, how did you trust your gut? How did you how yeah, what was that? How'd you develop that relationship to be like, okay, I'm gonna do it?
SPEAKER_00I think just you know, I being a systems thinker, so as an engineer, you're a systems thinker, that 50,000 foot view, it was just like, okay, stress turn this on. Then I should be able to remove the stress and turn it off. Like so there was there was that so good.
SPEAKER_01No, that's so simple.
SPEAKER_02It's such a simple way to look at it. Okay, how did I get here to begin with? And then okay, I got here by doing whatever the thing is, because the thing could be so many different things for different people, yeah. And then we just reverse it, yeah, reverse engineer, as you say. Exactly, absolutely brilliant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so I thought it was just going to be about food, but then uh, so what I realized now looking back was that I started developing orthorexia, which is a fear of eating anything but healthy food, and it was very isolating because I all I was doing was eliminating all kinds of foods because when you have leaky gut, you're basically become sensitive to the foods that you are eating because that's what's leaking through, right? So then you start panicking because you're like, oh my gosh, this is the foods I'm eating. Um, and then every time I had a painfully arguably, like, what did I eat? Someone I so it was created a load of stress. And so looking back now, what I didn't realize then was that that stress was probably stopping me from healing fully. So even though I was feeling a little bit better, of course, you're gonna feel better when you're not, you know, when you start eating better foods, yeah. Um, because you're giving yourself building blocks that are that are uh you know useful, not like building blocks that are your body has to like deal with like talk, you know, toxins if we're eating a lot of processed food and things like that. Right. So so I was probably a good year into this, and then I I remember reading something about just like loving yourself more. And I realized actually that it wasn't just the stress of my mother's dying, even though that was a big part because we were best friends, and the stress of everything else. I think it also took me back because I was dealing with my siblings, of course. I was taken back and re-triggered by childhood trauma. And I didn't have major trauma, I just had one of my older siblings used to tease me a lot and you know, tease me until I stuttered and then tease me for stuttering, and then I cried and then teased for crying, and so gosh, yeah. So I mean, it wasn't major trauma, and you know, whenever I say this, I always feel like, yeah, what do all the other people who had major trauma? Like they're like, girl, I'm sure they're I'm sure they they've got compassion, but like looking back at it, I didn't feel safe in my family, yeah. Um, and so I I had for my whole life, like, even though I was an engineer, even though I was a mother and had a lot of confidence with that and everything, I still had this inner part of me that didn't feel good enough, which led to what I call now, and I can see it in the people that I work with, is behaviors of protection. So pain is actually protection. Often illness is protection. Not, I mean, it doesn't sound weird, but it's like how our nervous system protects us. Yeah. But long before that, we probably have behaviors of protection. So, like people pleasing, perfectionism, uh, hypervigilance, hyperindependence. I mean, check, check, check, check. I had all of these things, and it's basically how we it we think that they are personality traits, but they're not, it's behavioral adaptations that we create early on in order to feel safe, right?
SPEAKER_02To survive, yeah, and feel safe. Safety is so important, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00And we don't even realize it. Like, if I said, if someone said to me, Do you feel safe? I'd be like, Yeah, I feel safe. Right. But okay, it my nervous system was obviously telling me it didn't feel safe.
SPEAKER_02What an unbelievable journey you had. I mean, you you you had this awareness, then you thought about the ill, like the stuff that you were diagnosed with, then you went into the food bit, but it all comes back to these patterns, these behaviors from our childhood. And it's that nervous system regulation that we didn't even know we needed when we were younger. We were just taking on all the stuff and we were like developing with it, and then all of a sudden, all these things are starting to happen. So, how did you go back? How did you heal that and calm the nervous system?
SPEAKER_00Um, I started so I had all I had always, well, not always, but I had done like Tai Chi years before and yoga, and um, I also had done Reiki. So I knew about you know energy and I knew about the power of breath work. And so I started doing breath work, and then I actually trained to become a yoga teacher. I'm not teaching a lot of yoga anymore, but um it was that power of the breath, and then you know, it was almost like Jen, like peeling back layers, yeah, peeling back layers of the of the onion. And so I also realized, okay, if this some of this, these behavioral adaptations went back to childhood, yeah, and I was still being triggered, then there was something, it was still in my subconscious mind. And so I started learning a lot more about the mind. I mean, the mind is amazing, you know, when you think about placebo effect and you know, all of those other things, the effect that our mind can have on our physical body, it runs our body.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And so I started, and I didn't even really realize that I was doing this in the beginning. Um, but I was um, so my mother was like my best friend and my champion. And when when she passed, I'm like, like, who's who's in my corner now? Kind of thing. I mean, I've got a loving husband, and you know, it's not that no, but there's nothing like the mother. I really I I relied on my mother to say nice things to me, and I realized that I had to be the one to say nice things to me. Wow. And so basically in the beginning, I was kind of like almost hearing my mother's voice in my head saying, Jamie, I'm so proud of you. You're a good person, you know, speaking like that. And then I realized it was me speaking, and I had also done a lot of work before the pain came along. I've been really interested in personal development, and so I read about like the power of affirmations and visualization, that kind of thing. So I started doing that for me. So I could like I could barely, I forgot to tell you, I think that all this happened. You know, I went from being strong and healthy to barely able to walk and couldn't make a fist with my hands, no grip strength within about three months.
SPEAKER_02How old were you at that time?
SPEAKER_00I was 50. I just turned 50.
SPEAKER_02Okay, when all of that happened. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And so I could barely walk. So I but I started like um visualizing myself climbing. I love hiking. So there's a beautiful hike on the island of Newfoundland where I live that go, it's the second highest point called Grossmore, but it's like a very like seven, eight-hour hike to do the whole thing. So like I wasn't anywhere near being close to doing that, but I would picture myself doing it. And then later on, when I I learned about like the power of music, I was like, oh, add some music to it. So I had Miley Cyrus the Climb going in my head, and and like and picturing myself at the top and raising my arms up in victory. And so I was doing this visualization stuff, and um, I was doing the affirmations, and then a big thing I had to do was forgiveness. Like I had to like I thought I was hanging on to this resentment toward my older sibling for doing this to me, you know. And so I realized I had to let it go. I really had to forgive and realize, you know, hurt people hurt people. And it wasn't, I it wasn't me. I was just like in the line of fire. And, you know, I so I had and and not just my brother, like other other things. When we think back in our life and we think back to people that hurt us, you know, if we're hanging on and harboring those resentments, it's actually hurting us because it's keeping that nervous system from feeling safe. Every time we think about the person or the event, you know, we had that. And so I worked, you know what, again. That was a multi-layered thing working on forgiveness. I did journaling, I did a lot of different practices, and um, and I still have to work at it. Like I'm we're all a work in progress, absolutely, right?
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead, finish what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00No, things you know, things will still come up, or I'll have a little memory of something like uh okay. I had that gave me a little uh uh, you know, and so that that voice within I can feel it. I'll tighten in my solar plexus. Um, because our bodies are speaking to us, right? Absolutely, and so I'll feel that tightening in my solar plexus, or you know, or like tightening in my chest, or you know, the throat constriction, something like that, or maybe my shoulders might what do you do when you feel that? I try, I start by breathing into it.
SPEAKER_02So do you keep moving? Do you pause? Do you lie down? What happens?
SPEAKER_00Uh, I don't necessarily lie down, I'll try to get the area moving because it's like tightness.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, if it's my shoulders, I might move them around a little bit. If it's if it's the solar plexus, like that's a really hard one for me to move. But yeah, you know, I'll try like that breath work of moving it in and out. So one thing I try to not do is think it, try to think it through too much, which is feel it as an engineer. Like we're so used to being very cerebral and thinking all the time, right? But instead, and and I have a little thing where I say don't not ask where, not why. So, not like, why am I doing this? Why am I thinking? Right. Okay, let's just go to where, let's just go to the body and absolutely and let the let it loosen up because our body, like through the nervous system, will will constrict. Yeah, that's protect that's protection. Yeah, expansion is is like freedom.
SPEAKER_02Let it go. Yeah. I love the um the whole why and where, because I talk a lot about how we chase the why. We're it's we're just conditioned to chase it. Why do I feel this way? Why, why, why? And it really just causes just so much more havoc. Now, I understand wanting to have some answers. I get it. We want to have a little bit of information, but that the why a lot of times is is partnered with with judgment, you know, I judge myself. So when we can release the why and just lean into the where and how is this making me feel? Um, then we can really relax the nervous system. I'm curious about how you listen to that guidance now. And do you, you know, so it's one thing to feel the angst or whatever the feeling is in that moment. And then I asked you what you do, and you start to move, which is great. So, you know, for our listeners, it's like if you're feeling something and it's in a high emotion, high intensity sensation, allow yourself to move that part, whether it's shaking your hands or your shoulders or your head or your legs, or go for a run. Move the energy. And there's this other piece about really pausing and slowing down. And I'm curious about that part for you. Do you do that practice? And if so, do you hear wisdom further, deeper wisdom that guides you into a new direction? Oh, I love this question.
SPEAKER_00Such a great question. Yes, I I have basically what I teach is creating practices throughout your day of that's of getting into stillness or practicing feeling a loving feeling because that is a calming feeling. So basically, you know, to kind of sum it up, it's like creating calm throughout your day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So my best practice is the morning, usually. Um, and I do very often get some wisdom and and insights from that. Um, but I think the the thing about having to practice and really cementing it throughout the day is we're keep we're creating these little touchstones of calmness. And that helps us recognize when we're out of it. So it's through the awareness of creating calm, knowing and having some tools on hand, like different people have different tools that might work for them. Um, having tools on hand that you know you can turn to, and then with through that awareness, you know when you're shifting out. So it's not that I never shift out now, like I'm still triggered by things, sure, but I don't, I'm not sitting in it for like hours or days like I used to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So catching it. You're catching it right. So I'm curious now, as someone that's fully aware, and you've got all kinds of tools to help yourself and others calm and relax into that nervous system, listen to the guidance. How has that helped you in your life with your job as a leader in the world, as a parent, as a woman? Like, how does this awareness elevate your ability to elevate others?
SPEAKER_00Gosh. Well, I mean, first of all, it uh I left my engineering career. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And became like I'm not telling people, go leave your career, but for me, it was like, huh, I did engineering because my father wanted me to do it. He was an engineer, I came from a long line of engineers, so that was one thing. And I'm like, uh, this isn't filling me up anymore. Like I loved it, I was good at it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I but I taught engineering actually at a college for the last number of years. So and I loved teaching. And so I part of this was like, well, I want to learn more. And so I my actually my naturopath that I had been working with at the time told me about the functional medicine coaching academy. And so I thought, okay, I'm gonna all study that for a year and online and and see where that goes. And I didn't know if it was really gonna go anywhere. But after the year of doing that, and I was still working on myself at the time and my health and the forgiveness practices, and I learned so much in that program because every single month we did a mind-body um component, and that was the part that really, really lit me up, you know, more so than the you know, anti-inflammatory diets and all that kind of stuff. It was like the power of the mind, and so um, and so I just started, I took a leave from my job at first, and uh partly, you know, for my own health, but also partly to like start trying out some of this stuff. And I started coaching people one-on-one, and and then, you know, then my intuition led me to all right, I if I want to help more people, and I was told I remember the voice in my head, I'm gonna teach people. So then I started, you know, kind of what you and I were talking about before we started. I was like, okay, I'll start a Facebook page, I guess, and I'll start talking about this. Because, you know, just talking to my friends about stuff, it it, you know, I always just didn't go over well at parties, like people just weren't as interested. And so I started building like my own community, and then I I built a community that's been running now, um, called Living Pain Free. It's been running since 2019. So that's been going. It's just like I just keep like, what's the next what else can I do? And then I I always wanted to write a book, and so I wrote my book last year, and that felt like you know, all of it is like one like little voice in my head. Um, and that helps guide me to like, okay, what do I need to do to write this book? What do I need to do to create this community? And also while I'm looking after myself, because I can get busy again, and I have to listen to that.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00If I start not sleeping again, which happens to me if I get stressed, then I know that's my body talking to me, telling me, all right, Jane, that's you know, you're creating too much stress and busyness in your life now, and so let's come because I need to live what I teach, absolutely, and which is nice because you're being held accountable by your own work, which is great, and your own awareness.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's interesting because you talk about what your mind tells you and then what your body tells you. And are they different?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. My mind, I'm a very busy, like I've got that busy mind, right? Um, and so my mind can make to-do lists and do you know so much stuff to do, but my body will tell me if it's too much, yeah. And so I really honor that now because I saw what happened, right? You know, I I I've seen what have happened before when it was just too much, when the stress was too much, and I don't I don't want to go back there again.
SPEAKER_02I love that so much. I think it's just an interesting relationship to hear the mind, to feel the body, and to decide which way do I go. Yeah, because a lot of people are like, Well, how do I know? How do I know that that's the right path?
SPEAKER_00Well, I do like re use some tools and teach some tools for following intuition, which I'm you probably do the same thing as well. So we talked about how share one, we'd love that, yeah. Well, I mean, a simple one is the body sway, right? Give us what is the body sway? We love that. So I talked about how uh pain, you know, pain is an outcome, but it comes from protection, which is constriction, repelling all of that stuff, yeah. And so, which is not our true name, not our true and best nature, our true nature is expansion, it's leaning towards it's like it's that beautiful gesture you're doing. I talk with my hands, I keep smacking the microphone and my desk as well.
SPEAKER_02No, it's good. I love it, it's so expressive. Okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00So that for the sway test, um, you can think about some. So, what I what I start off with in getting people to feel it, because it's very subtle. Yeah. Standing up, I'm not gonna stand up now because I'll be out of the camera, but I suggest standing up and putting your hands on your heart area. Yeah, and then you can close your eyes, but maybe that feels like too sometimes people feel like sort of off balance when they close their eyes. You can just have like a downward cast. And then I think about um the the biggest no, like back off Jack. So for me, it might be like someone trying to hurt my children, oh, or something like you would never want, but just think about it for a second because you feel it. And for me, like most people will feel like a swaying backwards, so feel a slight swaying away from that. Like you don't you don't want to get anywhere near right, right? Okay, and then quickly, we don't want to dwell there, so quickly then think about what would be one of the biggest yeses for you, like you know, winning a trip somewhere, or you know, for money or finding the love of your life, like what would be a huge yes for you, right? Just whatever it is, and just notice, like just feel what that feels like in your body, and then you'll probably notice that you sway towards. And so it's like I said, very subtle. I have a bunch of other tools as well, but that's that's one that people can start to feel, and it's amazing when I get a group of people, not very often do I have live groups, but sometimes. And when they're all standing around and they do that, and you can see them like almost like losing their balance because they'll fall away or forward.
SPEAKER_02Oh, so this is like a great tool to use when you're trying to figure out a decision, and you're faced with a decision, yeah, and you can close your eyes, put your hands on your chest here on your heart center, and feel into that choice of what that is. And if you move back, right, that's probably a no. And if you move forward, it's probably a yes.
SPEAKER_00Is that accurate? Yep, that's exactly it. And you can even do this with um, yeah, like with uh any kind of choice, just sort of thinking about it. And do you sway towards or away? But it's it's kind of fun to practice it because then you get better at trusting it. And uh, yeah, I mean, there's other I I started off using a pendulum as well, which I still do love using a pendulum. So you what do you do with that? Um, do I where is my well? Here's one pendulum.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00So uh so I'll basically, you know, so this is really what the pendulum does. It's not like the pendulum pendulum is magical and has answers. It's just your your brain can communicate really subtle movements through it. And so uh, first of all, when I first started this, I would, you know, kind of the same thing, like a big what's a yes, a big yes one. So I'll find out how does this signal yes to me, and then the no one, and then how does it signal no to me? So for me, the yes is back and forth this way, and the no is across that way. Got it, and so you can kind of start with some little things and and asking it uh, you know, yes and no questions basically.
SPEAKER_02So you hold it up and you ask the question and then you see which way it moves.
SPEAKER_00So I'm holding it up and I'm steadying my elbow and I get it really still.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so the elbow is on the table, yeah, the hand is holding the pendulum. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I started using this pretty early on. I mentioned that I was working with a naturopath, and uh, and I told her that I sometimes used a pendulum, and she then she started saying, Well, ask your pendulum what it says about this supplement and that supplement. And I'm like, uh, uh, I guess I don't really need to go to a naturopath. I can figure this out. Wow. Amazing. Yeah. So I love I love the pendulum, but like I said, it's not like the pendulum is magic, it's just that really subtle movements will be uh will come through our nervous system. So it's just a communication tool, and then there's other ones. The one I really, really like is um is rolling around my rolling my uh it's my middle finger around on my thumb. And this one's really, really subtle, and your hands have to be really dry. But a yes is it rolls around very easily, and then a no, it gets sticky.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. You know, for someone like me, I have like this very strange sensory thing on my hands, and like I can't, I'm I can't do that without my body kind of having this reaction. And I also can't do things like you know how when people put their f hands together and then rub them, I I can't do it. I never have been able to do it. So it's so interesting how, and I have no idea why, but I just those things, but I for some of the listeners, they'll be able to do that. You just gave us three really great techniques to try the pendulum, the sway, and then the rubbing of the um of the middle finger and the thumb. I love all of that, and I I really appreciate your journey. I I think it's extraordinary and how you really listened to that voice and trusted it and allowed yourself to just go and look at what came on the other side. So much, so much insight and research and um your practice, your book, and all the things. It's just really beautiful what happens when we follow the body. And and would you say before we wrap up, would you say that those experiences that you had when you did get diagnosed and and all of the things that you kind of went through, do you think they happened for you in a way?
SPEAKER_00We were on the same wavelength because I'm like, oh, I want to talk about it happening for me, not to me. Yeah, and then you asked the question. So it's I absolutely see it that way. Like, there's nothing wrong, and I was never broken, right? Right, it was all just awakening me to a better version of me. Gosh, that protective person who had to people please, who had to be perfect, or tried to be, um, who who had to be hyper-vigilant and hyper-independent, like that person was not having the most fun time. Exactly. You know, like that wasn't the fullest expression of me. Yeah, so I do see all of it now as happening for me. I think that, you know, it it was all the best thing that happened to me, but it was the right thing to happen because that's how it happened.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, the other thing is too, is the extra layer. And that's really what this podcast is all about, is that yes, it's about the awareness and the healing for ourselves and becoming the highest and best version of who we are. And it's about that leadership piece. What do we do with it? What do we do with all of this awareness? What do we do with all of the learning? Well, we go lead. Yeah, we go lead our children to help them with their awakening. We go lead our teams so that they can rise and create their impact. So it's all for me, it's like it's all happening for us so that we can become and remember the truth of who we are, learn all of the lessons we're meant to, and then go teach, go lead. And so that's what you're doing. And that's really beautiful. That's really beautiful. You know, just keeping it in for ourselves, it's like, okay, that's great. And we can take that and go serve. And that's when it gets really exciting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And you know, I I say this for a lot of the people in my community. Uh it's it's not even that they have to, they don't have to do what I did. They don't have to, you know, do start a podcast and do all that. But just by being that person who's calm and loving and compassionate, kind to themselves and kind to other people, compassionate with themselves, compassionate with other people, they are sending a ripple out into the world. Absolutely. My book, uh, I'm not sure where it is, but the cover of the book has a ripple on it. Yes, and that's exactly what it's about. Like you just be who you are, be that calm presence. Yeah, and you are sending a ripple out around everyone around you.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Exactly. In other words, we all have a different pathway towards creating impact and influence in the world and just be with that, whatever that looks like for you. I love it so much. I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your story and your journey and your expertise. It's masterful, really. And I appreciate you. How can people find you and connect with you?
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you so much, Jen. And thank you for having me on here. Like it's it's truly an honor for me. Yeah, I love to teach this, and I'm I'm meant to teach it. So you're good at it. So I'm pretty good at it. Um, so people can find me. My website is thewellnessengineer.com. I'm on YouTube at the wellness engineer and Instagram at the wellness engineer. I have a Facebook page too. It's Jane Hogan Health. Um, so any of those places, my podcast is wellness by design, and Jen has been a guest on the podcast as well. So lots of other amazing guests. It's a top three percent podcast in the world now, which I'm like totally blown away. Let's go. I know, I know. But if you know what that was just consistency, it's just consistency. Each each week I've been doing it since 2020 now. So fantastic. Yeah, um, you're amazing. So any of those places and uh just leave the message, people that like I love what I love your whole message. Trust yourself, trust that this is happening for you. Listen, listen to your body because it is speaking to you.
SPEAKER_02Beautiful. I love it. Thank you so much, Jane. I appreciate you. And thank you all for joining the Wisdom from Within podcast, where human stories awaken leadership from within. I'll see you next week. If something in this conversation spoke to you, don't keep it to yourself. Send it to someone who might need that message too. You can also send me a comment because I would love to know what it is that landed for you. But most importantly, take a moment to pause and listen to what it is that resonated because that's where your real guidance system lives. The one you can trust, the one you can rely on. See you next week.