Wisdom from Within
Welcome to The Wisdom from Within podcast, I am Jen Aks and this is where we access mindset and bodyset - connecting both so that we can create the genuine, authentic, impact in our own lives and the lives we serve.
We get there by having conversations with industry leaders, scientists, executives, parents, your neighbors. These are conversations that reveal the intelligence your body already holds—and my mission is to help you awaken, trust so you can let it lead you into your greatest success.
Wisdom from Within
Without Your Heart, There's Nothing | Ep. 3
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About the Guest
Ben Katt has been helping people experience deep transformation and access lives of greater joy, compassion, and purpose for the past 20 years. He is the author of The Way Home: Discovering the Hero’s Journey to Wholeness at Midlife — a guidebook and memoir about the inner journey we must embark on to live our fullest lives. Ben is the founder of the Within Prison Meditation Project, volunteers as a hospice companion, and writes weekly in his Within newsletter. He is a certified advanced meditation teacher of the One Giant Mind Technique, holds a Master of Divinity degree, and was an ordained minister for over a decade. Previously, he led the On Being Project’s work supporting religious and spiritual leaders in social healing. He regularly leads workshops at Modern Elder Academy campuses in Santa Fe and Baja, California.
Episode Summary
In this deeply honest and often funny conversation, Jen Aks sits down with author and transformation guide Ben Katt to explore what it really means to follow your inner voice when the external world is pulling you in every direction. Ben shares his journey from ministry and community work in Seattle — where he lost himself to a savior complex and burnout — to the rainy morning run where a voice inside him said, ‘If you don’t have your heart, you have nothing.’ He walks through his framework for the inner journey, inspired by Joseph Campbell’s hero’s journey, and offers remarkably grounded, practical wisdom on trust, letting go, masks, and what it truly means to find and live your purpose. Oh, and both Ben and Jen reveal they were once mascots. It gets good.
What You’ll Learn
• What it means to live an ‘externally referenced life’ — and how to recognize if you’ve been doing it
• Why the way forward is always within — and how Ben arrived at that truth through burnout and loss of self
• How to identify the ‘three-headed monster’ of achievement, perfection, and people-pleasing in your own life
• The three phases of Ben’s inner journey framework: leave the familiar, fall into the unknown, rise to wholeness
• Why letting go isn’t about changing your job or relationship — it’s about shedding the masks you mistake for your identity
• How to start building trust in your inner voice — beginning with small, low-stakes decisions
• What Carl Jung’s concept of the ‘persona’ has to do with mascots, rhinoceros costumes, and your authentic self
• What dharma really means — and why purpose is not a job title, it’s a moment-to-moment practice
• Why doing inner work isn’t selfish — it’s actually essential for everyone around you
• Why the hero’s journey isn’t just for midlife — it’s for anyone at any age who is ready to listen
Key Concepts Introduced
• The Way Forward Is Within — Ben’s core philosophy: inner authority is always accessible; we just forget it
• The Three-Headed Monster — achievement, perfection, and people-pleasing as a toxic operating pattern
• The Hero’s Journey (Joseph Campbell) — three phases: leave the familiar, fall into the unknown, rise to wholeness
• The Mascot / The Mask — Carl Jung’s ‘persona’: the identity we construct to survive that eventually limits us
• The Boon — Campbell’s term for the gift the hero returns with to serve the collective after inner transformation
• Dharma — spontaneous right action; your particular role in the evolution of things, expressed moment to moment
• Answering the Call — the first step of the hero’s journey: saying yes to the inner invitation, however uncomfortable
Resources & People Mentioned
• The Way Home: Discovering the Hero’s Journey to Wholeness at Midlife — Ben’s book (available everywhere books are sold, plus Audible, Spotify, Apple Books — narrated by Ben himself)
• BenKattOfficial.com — Ben’s website
• Modern Elder Academy (m
Welcome to the Wisdom From Within podcast. My name is Jen Axe and I am your host. This is where mindset meets bodyset, where we access both so that we can make the most genuine, authentic, empowered impact on those we love and those we serve. Let's get started. All right. I am so excited to share this conversation with you. I was extremely moved the entire time. This is an honest conversation about what do we do when we hear those internal voices and we're battling the external expectations. Which one do we follow? And when do we know it's right? And when do we know it's time to pivot? Well, Ben's story is a beautiful example. He imparts so much wisdom and advice. And I'm just thrilled that he shared so honestly. We also share some humor along the way. So stay in it with us until the end. You're going to get a lot of value from this conversation. And my hope is that this awakens something within you too. Okay, here we go. For those of you that are listening now, uh how lucky lucky you and those that come back later, lucky lucky you. We are with Ben Kat on the Wisdom from Within podcast, which is where human stories awaken leadership from within. And this is your expertise and this is your jam. I'm going to tell the listeners who you are briefly, and then we're going to jump in. So Ben has been helping people experience deep transformation and access lives of greater joy, which is what we just spoke about, compassion and purpose for the past 20 years. His first book, The Way Home: Discovering the Hero's Journey to Wholeness at Midlife, is a guidebook and memoir about the inner journey we must embark on in order to live our fullest lives. Ben is the founder of the Within Prison Meditation Project, volunteers as a hospice companion, and writes regularly about the inner journey in his weekly Within newsletter and you let's go. What alignment. Ben is a certified advanced meditation teacher of the world-renowned One Giant Mind Technique, holds a master of divinity degree, and was an ordained minister for over a decade. Previously, he led the On Being Projects work in supporting religious and spiritual leaders in the work of social healing. Ben is an expert at adapting ancient personal development practices for modern contexts in order to help people wake up to who they are and why they are here. He lives with his wife and three children in a in a bunny.
SPEAKER_02In a bunny bunny and a bunny.
SPEAKER_00And a bunny? What are we talking about? Okay.
SPEAKER_02A bunny shaped house.
SPEAKER_00Wait, seriously?
SPEAKER_02No, no, no. We have a bunny. We have a bunny. And we have a puppy now, too, six months old. I gotta update that.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Okay, I'm allergic to bunnies, but they are so damn cute. How is it having a bunny?
SPEAKER_02Oh, fantastic. It's a Holland lop, so it's got these floppy ears. Posey is the name. Posey's fantastic. Our gateway pet. That's why we have a dog now, too.
SPEAKER_00Oh, to keep her company.
SPEAKER_02Well, no, because we were like, well, we love this pet. And now our kids finally convinced us how great our house is with a pet. So then they're like, we need a dog. And we did.
SPEAKER_00Oh my God, I love it. Well, I am I am so honored that you're here. That is, I read your bio before. I actually read it a few times because it's so wildly impressive, but also so resonant for the work that I'm doing and the mission that I'm on. And I'd love to start with one of your taglines. I believe you say the way forward is within.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00All the time. That's just like right. I'd love for you to talk about that. What do you mean and why? Why is it the way forward?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I think in our world, it's very common to live an externally reference life, meaning we are always very often living in accordance to what others expect of us, what others need, what others say is the way. And also looking for when there's some stirring inside of us, we want to look for some external thing, maybe to fill that or fix it or make sense. And the whole idea of the way forward is within is to say, stop looking outward, that in fact you have this inner authority, it's always there, this calm, this wisdom, this joy, this presence.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And over time, what's happened is we've forgotten that, we've lost access to it. Um, but I'm passionate about helping people reconnect with that, reclaim it, and start to live a life from the inside out. So, you know, to sort of land that to that. Well, yeah, great, great question. Yeah. You know, and the thing is, it's I really think so. Say you're at a crossroads in your life. Um, at many, I'm sure I have, or you're feeling stuck. It's very common to want to maybe rearrange the chairs, like the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. Like life's not really working anymore. You're just trying to rearrange where I live, who I'm with, what I do. But what I invite people in into is to say, go within first. That's where you're gonna find the answers, that's where you're gonna get the clarity, that's where you're gonna remember who you really are. You're gonna figure out what you need to shed that's maybe blocking you from expressing your authentic identity and live from the inside out. So that's gonna guide you forward. Now, how do we do that? I mean, you know well from your work. Uh, it's actually, I always say it's actually pretty simple, meaning, but it's gonna take some time. It's practice is so critical. What are the practices that are gonna help you tap into stillness? What are the practices that help you get quiet? Uh you know, what are the things that help you tune in to that inner voice so that you can hear it, pay attention to it, and have the courage to live a life in accordance with what it's guiding you into?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, how did you arrive here? Can you tell us a little bit about your journey? Were you someone that was living externally and then found your way within and then led you to this work? I'd love to hear a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's interesting because there's kind of two threads there. One is from a young age, I felt um this connection to something more. And I and I grew up in a family, a religious context where I was part of a church. And that church is very supportive, a loving community. And I'm thankful for how it gave me really a container to develop this inner life, this spiritual life, and say that that this matters, this is important, and this is a thing that can animate, can energize the work we do in the world and how we serve the collective. Okay. Um, so I had that and I'm thankful for it. Right down the down the road, there's a lot to unpack. It's sort of I outgrew that delivery system for that kind of inner life that I had, right? I I outgrew it. What do you mean you grew out the well, like sort of my my perspectives, you could say beliefs, my inner knowing, just things evolved. Yeah, where it's like, you know, I say it's kind of outgrew it, like a think of a a plant, a potted plant that keeps growing. Eventually, that that um pot, you know, those roots extending in the soil, the pot's not big enough for it to keep those roots to go deeper.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So it's like I outgrew that that container. Um, so that so that I could continue to grow and unfold and figure out my purpose. So I I bring that up to say, yes, from a from a young age, there was this call inward, this tending to the inner life. But also, uh, you know, I I graduated college, I went straight into divinity school. It's so funny. You read my bio. It's I laugh every time. So I gotta, I'm a master of divinity, Jen. I'm a master of divinity. How funny is that?
SPEAKER_00You know, right? Isn't it funny to yeah, have that read back to you?
SPEAKER_02What what a what a funny name for a degree, as if that's something possible. I think what it means is I'm a seeker and I'm an explorer.
SPEAKER_00Um but it was actually a degree, right?
SPEAKER_02Like you've got it's it's called an M, it's an MDiv. It's like if you're a pastor or a reverend, let's go. That's that's what it is. Um, I ended up I got that degree, and then I moved when I was in my late 20s, my wife and I moved to Seattle and I started a church there. Okay. Church, there's a lot to unpack there, but really the central central to our work was this community center we created where we were building mutually reciprocal relationships with people dealing with homelessness, mental illness, addiction. There were women caught up in prostitution and sex trafficking, and we created a community space and and learned and grew together. And yes, we helped and supported them, but it was, you know, we were being transformed. So I'm in that work, and it's you know, just bear with me here for a second. It's meaningful, it's impactful, it's even, dare I say, virtuous work. People would look at that and say, wow, bravo. And and so what happened what happened though in that work, because there's there's a lot of need, there's a lot of people to help, is I did start to embrace a bit of a you know, unwittingly kind of this savior complex. Like I need, I need to achieve and do and perform in order to help people. And if I don't, then what happens? And so at that point in my life, and that's really start, I mean, it started almost 20 years ago now. Um, but then in the years that follow, it's like I lost connection to to my soul. It's like my soul kind of turned off the lights and snuck out the back door. So I started going through the motions in the work. And and it took uh an event, kind of an epiphany about 10 years ago to wake me up again to see that I had been living that externally referenced life. I am what I do, I am what I achieve, I am you know perfect, I am what others think of me and how they feel about me as opposed to moving and operating from that inner compass.
SPEAKER_00Can you just talk about? Sorry to connect to to chime in, but I'm curious about that. Like, what did that disconnection feel like? And then how did you recognize that you wanted to shift and get back into alignment again?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I'll start with the the recognition that'll help. Um, so I was out on a run, it was like in the early morning in Seattle where I lived, and it's raining as often does. And um, I was running around this little lake, like a two and a half mile loop. And typically, I you know, I get to this hill, charge up the hill, turn the corner, and run like the last 10 blocks home, and then like die, you know, clean up, you know, do whatever, breakfast with the family, and then like go about my work and make an impact. And this one particular day I did that, and I get to the top of the hill, and I just stopped in my tracks because this voice welled up inside me, this voice from within, and it said, if you don't have your heart, you have nothing.
SPEAKER_00If you don't have it, was it actually like a voice you heard?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was it was like it was it was clear as day. It was clear as day, and I just stopped because like I pulled out my AirPods and I walked home in the rain. I was all sweaty, I just climbed into bed. I was like, I knew something was up. And you know, in in the time that followed, so the very minimum, like, whoa, I realized I'm burned out. I'm I'm burned out. I cannot keep and I cannot keep going forward and showing up in the world the same way that I had. Like something needed to change. Now, um in the in the days and whatever months that followed, through a lot of introspection and support, I realized, oh, underneath that burnout, which had happened before, by the way, it's like this allegiance. There was this allegiance to this, I call it the three-headed monster, achievement, perfection, and people pleasing or performing to please others. That that had become my operating pattern, right?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So as I look back then, you know, then I sort of say, wow, actually, something had been trying to get my attention for a while. So to the original part of the question is like, what did that feel like? I mean, yeah, it felt like going to meetings with people related to work that I was just like not into that is you know, it would exhaust me.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02It felt like getting, you know, helping people, whether it's staff or volunteers or the people at our community center, and just being really kind of kind of edgy, short, and not having a lot of capacity to deal with things. Uh, it felt like feeling, you know, being increasingly withdrawn in my marriage and kind of a distant father to young kids. It felt like you know, feeling alone and in terms of my friendships. So there were warning signs there. I would, you know, this is all that that that voice that came to me. If you don't have your heart, you have nothing. I talk about it in, you know, I talk about this in my book, but using the mythologist Joseph Campbell's language, it was a call to adventure, you know, inviting me into something new.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02But but really the call was coming in all these subtle ways before that. It's just it's like just pushed it aside. It's like, I gotta keep going, I gotta keep helping people, I gotta keep making money, I gotta do all these things.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And so you so I was avoiding it. And I think probably a lot of people can relate to that at you know, in various stages of their life.
SPEAKER_00Totally. That it's so interesting. Call to adventure, and you saw it as okay, I'm gonna walk through this, I'm gonna go and and explore what this adventure is. I think a lot of people would be like, Holy shit, like what does this mean? But you actually felt like this is a positive call. How did you know it was a positive call? Like, how did Oh my gosh, yeah?
SPEAKER_02Such a good question. Well, what what's funny is I when I got home that day and I crawled into bed, you know, my wife was like, What is going on here?
SPEAKER_00What's right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02And I had all these meetings and things on my schedule, and she's like, You just need to take a day to reset. I wasn't very good at resting, you know, go figure. And um, but I had one meeting that day that that she's like, you should keep this one, and it was with my mentor Ron. So Ron and I had met regularly. He just he was like in a totally different line of work. I mean, he was like a corporate executive coach, right? But but supporting me, like volunteering, was a friend, uh, a dear friend. And he I had a lunch, so I go and meet with him at like a shopping mall, restaurant, whatever it was. I can't remember what it was. And I'm sitting across the booth from him, and he says to me, you know, I'm like spilling my guts, like all this, I don't even know. It's like, I don't what I'm saying. And and he says to me, he like looks at me, he says, you know, um, I want you to know you're a lot more buoyant than you realize. You're a lot more buoyant than you realize. Meaning you're feeling a lot, you feel like you're drowning, you feel like you you you can't handle this. Yeah, and he's saying, you can, which you know, as I interpret that now, what he's saying is like you have, and I say this to my clients all the time, you have within you everything you need to navigate this. You just have to trust it. So, so I had that, and then you know, actually, after lunch, we went for a walk in the mall, and there was like a papyrus or store. He's like, Oh, come in here, and he bought me a journal, and he's like, Write it down, Ben, like write it down. And um, and I had had a journaling practice, but I at that point I realized, you know what? I my journaling had become about looking forward, like what's next? What am I gonna do? What am I gonna accomplish? As opposed to looking inward, right? And that's where a shift happened. I started to to dig in there. Now, I'll just put a little like a I'll just tag something here, which is to say, what happened there with Ron? It is you are leading me into the if the first stage of the call of the hero's journey, if you will, that's Joseph Campbell's like language, or this journey within is answer the call, the call to adventure. The second one is get help. And that's what happened. I walked right into help that day. And when you have help and help arrives to you when you start to say yes to this call, it comes your way, it nature supports you, and so you get that, and that for me and for for all of us, it actually emboldens us to keep saying, Oh, something is happening. I need to move forward, keep going. I can do right.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh, that's so beautiful. Something that um you said about he said to you, you just need to trust it. And I hear that all the time. You just need to trust. And the thing is, that's hard. It's not like, oh, just go trust, and not saying that you feel better, but but it is a it's like I would love to pause for a second about trust because trusting the guidance from within, many people don't know if it's right or wrong. And I always say, I I truly, I'm not being cheesy about this. I really don't believe there's any wrong way because I think if we go down a path and it's not, it doesn't serve us. I actually think it does, you know, I keep tripping myself because I think that all of it serves us. There's a lesson within all of it. I do believe that. As hard as that lesson might be, it is meant for us. And it's just up to us to lean in and listen and get curious, right? But that trust is so hard. And how do we know what voice to follow and whatnot? What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I I totally agree that if if you're can can I trust it or not, just take the next right step. Just take a step. And maybe you'll hit the you know you're driving and there's some rumble strips there, or maybe you'll hit a curb, and but it'll it'll it will, it might be uncomfortable, it'll correct you back, right? So it'll it'll take longer, but that's not the point. You'll grow and learn from it, right? Um, so so make a decision if it's wrong, it's not ultimately wrong. So I totally agree with you, right? Um, but once again, you're leading me right down this path. These are the 10 chapters from my book and my own journey. But the third step, and this is just so fun that you're guiding me into this, um, is actually let go. Again, well, what does that mean? That's hard, but but here's here this is really critical to growing that inner trust, is we also have to have uh it's really helpful. Um, we might not do it right away, but to have it take an honest inventory of our operating patterns. So I like to um well, I like to uh can I share a little story that I'll be sweeties? So absolutely, so I like to say, um, sometimes I'll say, like, oh, a lot of people don't know. I used to be in professional football, and people go, really? I was like, Yeah, you know, I um but it was it wasn't the NFL gen, it was actually the arena football. Like, okay, arena football. Like, and then I don't know, actually, actually, I wasn't a player, I was a mascot. Okay, that I was a mascot, and I wasn't the game time mascot, you know, the one who got to shoot the t shirt.
SPEAKER_00Wait, is this like the peeling back like you'd start saying this is the story I tell, and I'm telling it to you now.
SPEAKER_02Like I wasn't pro football, but I was a mascot, and they sent me to right like elementary schools and weird parades. That's what I did. Okay, so why do I bring this story up? It's because when I started that job and my name was Blitz, I was a gray, furry, fuzzy rhino, rhinoceros, blitz. Oh my god, and uh I went to the first meeting, and this intern for the organization was walking me and a few other people who were the like low-level mascot like me. And he had two things he said. He said, There's two rules, like two laws when you're a mascot. Number one, don't ever take your head off. Don't ever take your head off. And number two, don't ever your mascot, your mascot.
SPEAKER_00Oh, right, I see like the costume mascot, the rhino head, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, and the other one is don't ever speak, right? Don't ever speak. A mascot can do all these gestures, but they don't talk. Okay. What the hell does this have to do with your question? Well, I realized later in my journey, like that those two rules, those mascot rules, were how I live my life. One, don't let people see your true face. Don't let people see your true face. Number two, don't don't speak with your authentic voice. Don't let people hear hear that. Okay. And so this this image of the mascot, or think of there's masks we wear in the language of Carl Jung, it's there's it's the persona, it's the ego's way it puts itself forward to fit in, to get its needs met, to stay safe.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And we learn this at a young age. And guess what, Jen? It's really helpful, it's really important, it's really powerful, it helps us survive. Okay. However, at some point in our lives, we get to a point where we've outgrown it. This is the operating pattern that doesn't work anymore. And so this work of letting go, it's not about just like letting go of, oh, I'm letting go the job or the relationship. It's deeper work on this inner journey. It's actually saying, what is the what are these operating patterns, or what's the mask I've been wearing that I I have thought, I've come to believe it is authentically me. I'm an achiever. I'm I help, I'm an organizer, I control things, I I help people, I'm I'm a lone wolf. Like there's a million different masks we can wear. We can all like name our own. Come up with your own name. To the degree that we are firmly wearing that mask, we will have a more difficult time accessing our wisdom within us.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Because it's we're gonna be stunted at the level of, you know, if I'm trying to make a decision from the level The a conscious state of achiever, I'm probably gonna dive into some other achieving thing right away, as opposed to maybe the riskier, more subtle thing I'm being invited into.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02So so there's some acknowledgement naming and beginning to shed or let go of those masks. That that helps us more clearly tune in. Does this make sense?
SPEAKER_00No, it totally makes sense. It's really interesting. You're um, I don't know if I'm lagging, but like I see um like the lag, and it's a very you're like in this like abstract kind of like flow. But now you're fine on my end. Now you're back. Um you know, it's it's uh first of all, what a metaphor. And by the way, I dressed up as battletoed for Nickelodeon when I was in high school, and I too had the same message, but I didn't go as deep as you. Like they told me, don't take your mask off and don't talk to the children. And I'm just gonna tell you really quick because I was battletoed, they were these little kids were all over the tail of this costume and were like swinging me. Oh they were grabbing, they were like, Battletoad, and they were like actually punching because the costume had like these big muscles. Oh, and I turned, I I looked at one of the kids, I said, Don't you touch my tail? It was a role not to speak, but I had to speak because this kid would not leave me alone. Then I got fired.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, I got I got kicked, I was getting kicked by little kids, and I just have to share it's like I got kicked, and I actually I was it made me emotional because I I didn't talk actually, which is funny. I was like, I'm just like I I am out of here. And this is a funny story. I go and I go back into the principal's office, which was like my changing room, and I take my hat off and like picture me, I'm sitting in a principal's like desk, and suddenly there's a knock at the door. I'm like, yeah, and a voice, it's an adult, but like, hey blitz. I'm like, yeah. And a guy opens the door and he's like, he's like, hey blitz, and he sees me kind of emotional. He's like, he's like, oh, you're not leaving because those kids were were being mean to you, are you? And I was going, Oh no, no, I'm I'm fine. And he just looks at me and he goes, It's okay. I'm a clown. Um, the idea of when you're learning to tune in and listen to your inner wisdom, don't start with the big things, start with small things, like the little like don't like, oh, I'm moving across the country. Like, no, actually, uh, I don't want to go to this party tonight, even though usually my head would be like, Go. Something in me is like, eh, it just feels off. Trust that, right? Um, right. Or go to this grocery store instead of that one. And maybe there's some there's some purpose you will find. You might not always know, but do that. The other thing I talked about is like once you let go, so you remove those masks or those operating patterns, right? What happens? Well, then you're in the unknown, it's uncomfortable. It's like this whole new terrain, and one of the things you need to do is befriend that space, like befriend the darkness, right? Like it's it's so much comes up in that space, and this is all about deepening your awareness and understanding of who you really are, right? It feels can feel very scary at first, right? Keep going, it's okay. Revelation happens. So that's a little bit of what I was talking about.
SPEAKER_00No, no, I love it. I love it all. And what I talk about is beyond that awakening and that awareness as well. Like, why? Why does it matter? And so, yes, it matters because we need to know ourselves in order to make the right decisions for our lives. We need to know ourselves in order to choose the right relationships, the jobs, to make the moves and do all the things. And a lot of my work is focused around embodied leadership and really making impact in the world with our children or in companies or nonprofits or our, you know, our business that we've created, communities that we're living inside of, students on campuses. This message really is for everyone. And it is about, you know, awakening that wisdom from within, learning how to trust it and be led by it so that we can, so that we can be fulfilled ourselves and make impact in the world. So I'm curious before we go, you know, if you can just talk a little bit about that from your perspective, because clearly this whole awakening and journey has served you. You've written a book, you're doing all these incredible things. So, and you're a leader in so many ways. So I'd really love to for you to explore that with us.
SPEAKER_02Yes, okay, I love that. So, so what I was sort of walking through, or you were leading me into is this framework based on Joseph Campbell's um the mythologist hero's journey. And I, you know, I lived through this thing, and then I kind of said, How would I describe it? So you leave the familiar, that's phase one, you fall into the unknown, phase two, phase three is rising to wholeness, and in that third phase. So anytime that the hero, the heroine, the human goes on this journey, and this is a universal pattern, by the way, to really go to really go on this journey into awakening and evolution. What's happening is it's never just about you, it's not like in the and and Campbell uses this language of the hero returns with a boon. What's the boon? A boon is a blessing. So I say one of the steps in my framework is there's a you give your gift. There's a gift. So if you've done all this inner work, if and yet still this is just about you, your own success and what you have. I'm sorry, you need to keep going. You know, there's something else you need to shed. Because at the end of the day, always and forever, this journey is about making a more generative, wholehearted contribution to the world. We heal ourselves, we become more whole, so we can help heal others and help them become more whole. So I'm I'm I'm exactly with you on that. And um and I think it's really important to highlight this because sometimes you know, people can listen to these conversations and say, I'm just so busy, I don't have time to slow down, I don't have I don't have time to you know get still and go within and do these practices and do you know be in my body and or meditate. Like, but here's the thing like you without doing that, like like you're doing it when you do it, these this is actually ultimately for the common good. And what you're doing is you're rewiring you're you're resetting your nervous system, you are cultivating your being so that when you're in a room, when you're in a conversation, you are you're in that you're that in that alignment and you're not reacting to all the things around you, and you can be a stable, calm, I dare I say, loving presence in in the midst of whatever's going on. And that is what we need in our world so desperately is like we react, we react, we react. And just to say one more thing, because this is you know captures a bit of my journey. Yeah, I was in I was in the helping professions, I was helping a lot of people, I was making a big impact. But when I lost myself, I lost my way. Here's the deal I'm organizationally working for good, working for change, but in my being, I'm communicating and embodying a different message, which is it's anxiety, it's fear, it's fear, it's whatever it is. I'm you know, there's conflict I'm creating. So, and I've seen this with so many leaders, it's like you're doing good work, but because you're not tending to your being, you're actually at another level working against the exact thing you want to be about, right? So this is where it's so critical. It's like what I'm doing for myself is also for the collective.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. What's coming to me too is that, you know, it's not like it's like yes, go in and then lead from that place and find happiness and connection with what we're doing. And it's not even about like some people are like, I can't, I'm not in that service world. I have to pay my bills and I'm doing this other job, and then I find passion elsewhere. And that's totally fine. Like everybody's got their own path, but it is about right, that that connection to self so that no matter what the job is, whether it's your life purpose or your service-driven business, whatever, and it, or if it's not, you're connected some way, and then serving in other aspects of your life because there are people in the world that go to work because they get the paycheck, it pays the bills, and then they find that passion and that alignment and that service elsewhere in their life. And that is a leader as well. It's not like leadership is just corporate America, leadership is just being a human being, you know, being an example for your neighbor or for your child, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. We we don't need you know, everyone going on an inner journey and becoming a coach, which I am, right? Like, like, but you don't, that's not it. You don't have to do that. Like you might go on this journey and end up back in the same office in the same building with the same people, the same with more connection. Well, with more connection, right? And it also what you share brings up this idea of like, well, what are we, yeah, what is purpose? And one of my you know, teachers, he talks about the word dharma, which a lot of people understand from it's like maybe in Buddhism, but like its origins in the philosophy of India is that dharma at the end of the day, it's about its behavior, uh, it's about spontaneous right action. Spontaneous right action. It's it's about your particular role in the evolution of things. So, what does all that mean? It means that purpose, let's get away from this like like purpose is like the professional expression of this. It's a job. No, purpose is like Jen in this moment. Uh, you know, when you're interacting with someone, because you're aligned and you're in tune with yourself, how actually are you able to meet them where they're at? There might be a word, a word you need to say, right? Uh, you know, something, a question you need to ask, just a smile you need to give. This is all purpose. And if we're not, so if we're not kind of tuned in, we're gonna show up in moments and we're gonna miss them. We're gonna miss the possibility to make a generative contribution in that moment, which then has a ripple effect on everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. I love it all so much. You're such an example of all of this. It's really that story that you had and your connection and disconnection and reconnection to self is such an inspiration and one that I think people are gonna want to learn more about. So tell us where they can find your book. Tell our listeners how they can find you and connect with you and learn more deeply about what it is you do.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Jen. So the book is called The Way Home: Discovering the Hero's Journey to Wholeness at Midlife. That's a long subtitle. Um but you you can find it anywhere books are available, okay? Anywhere. Uh you can ask your local bookstore. If they don't have it, they can order it. Um, obviously, Amazon, things like that. You also can, if you prefer audiobook, you have Spotify Premium, you should get it for free, or you can do Audible, Apple Books, etc. I auditioned for the part. Thank you very much. And I got it. I got to read my own book, which was super fun.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you did that too. So fun, right?
SPEAKER_02Isn't that great? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I you know, that's a choice, and I get that, but I really enjoyed that process.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. I can't imagine it for my book. I'm not saying yeah, for other that's fine. For other people, yeah. Yeah, but my website is Ben Cot Official, Bencot Official.com. Um, and also I'm part of something called Modern Elder Academy, which is the world's first midlife wisdom school, meawisdom.com. I regularly lead workshops at their campuses in Santa Fe and Baja, California. I have some coming up. I'd love to see people. Um, but otherwise, thanks so much for your time. I'm not surprised you also were a mascot at one point. This does not surprise me, Jen.
SPEAKER_00I love that. Well, I I have so many further questions. So I know we're gonna continue to talk. And very the last thing that's just coming to me, just before we go, I'm just curious. Do you ever speak to younger adults? You know, your book is for midlife, and I'm just wondering, do you speak to young men and women in college, in high school? Because I find, and I'm really focused on this right now, really helping this demographic understand the importance of connection from within, wisdom from within, emotional intelligence, and how it can really serve their life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I do it every day because I have three teens and they don't want to hear from me. Um, but but also I'll say I'm I'm ready and available, so it's not something I do a lot. However, I love your question because the thing in midlife, this was so I had a publisher, grateful for my publisher, but they wanted that in the title. I was like, it's not just for people in midlife. I was in early midlife when I went on this journey, the first round of it at least. Right. Um, this this inner journey, it's for everyone. And I think, especially in these times that we're living in with so much chaos and many challenges. Yeah, uh, this invitation to go within and access your authentic wisdom, it's so relevant for all of us. So if anyone out there is, you know, a team in college, whatever, check out the book. Absolutely. You know, reach out, would love to support you. And Jen, thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_00This was oh my gosh, thank you. It's been so fun. Stay here for a quick second. I'm gonna say goodbye to everybody, and we will see you next week on Wisdom from Within, where human stories awaken the leadership from within. We've all got it, and I'm excited to see you again and deepen your wisdom even further. See you next week.